Kinda Curios

[Geist]

I was wondering would you be allowed to have your ovaries removed even though theres nothing wrong with them?

[Tallulah]

I'm not sure about voluntary hysterectomies, but some (mainly young) women have voluntary mastectomies (removal of one or both breasts) because of a strong familial link with breast cancer. One woman whose grandmother, aunt and mother had died of it, and whose sister had it (I think), had it done.

In the case of hysterectomies, if there was a strong chance of uterine or ovarian cancer, then it may be allowed. However, I would think it would be inadvisable unless something like that was affecting the woman. That said, some women have undergone the procedure due to excrucatingly painful periods. But this is usually due to a severe form of Polycystic Ovary Syndrome, which causes cysts on the ovaries, or a condition called fibroids, large uncomfortable cysts inside the womb.

[Kuluvila]

There are many complications that can come from having a Hysterectomy and I don't know any woman who would want to risk all the complications that can happen after that type of surgery... not to mention the loss of the ability to have children.

I know some girls who have joked at how great it would be to have it done because then they would never have to worry about getting pregnant, but I truly believe that is something they want now and with all the advancements in Birth Control they should just stick to that. At least with birth control you have the option of later on having children.

[Geist]

There are many complications that can come from having a Hysterectomy and I don't know any woman who would want to risk all the complications that can happen after that type of surgery... not to mention the loss of the ability to have children.

I know some girls who have joked at how great it would be to have it done because then they would never have to worry about getting pregnant, but I truly believe that is something they want now and with all the advancements in Birth Control they should just stick to that. At least with birth control you have the option of later on having children.

Well your kinda looking at a person who wants it done but theres nothing wrong as such.

Even though I've been told repetedly I would change my mind about having a child I personly feel like braking any baby's neck and so wouldn't be fit to have a child in any case.

[Royston]

As a guy I cant say much on this, only that as time goes on you more than likey will change you mind on having children. As I see it, once you have a hysterectomie thats it, where as just being careful and using protection you always have the option open to you later in life.
Its a big desision and not one I think should be thoughlessly.

[Geist]

^_^

You really need a hearing aid. I HATE CHILDREN!

Its not the end if I do get one either! Whats wrong with adoption? There are so many unwanted children on the planet already whats the point of brining another one into it when someone else; who wants children. Could have my overies and have the closest thing to their own child and live happily.

[Royston]

Geist not knowing how old you are makes this reply difficult but not incorrect.
If your young you will almost defilatly grow out of hating children, this can go for both boys and girls, 5 or 6 years ago I would have said the same.

If you older than say 20 - 25 then I would say your most likely not going to grow out of it.
I cant argue the adoption thing, its an option.

My biggest arguement is... Why?
You have no medical problem, if you dont want kids, no one will force you :) (excluding rape >_>) and if you DO get pregnant you can always have an abortion.

[Geist]

I think i suffer from borderline. I have a problem with voicing my anger when that happens or I get really, really sad I use a pencil sharpener blade and make small cut on my chest and sometimes my arms.

I'm 16. When I was little all my friends where older than me and I have never liked little kids or being treated like one.

One reason why is probably I am fed up of having something similar to pain in my stomach exept it isn't pain is an ache that builds up and on the verge of turning into pain it stops and builds up again. I'm a masocist I enjoy pain but not something like that. I'm also fed up of having what feels like a waterfall between my legs ever month.

[Royston]

And im fed up of getting an errection every god damn morning, but its something you live with :)

[Geist]

And im fed up of getting an errection every god damn morning, but its something you live with :)

yeah you can get rid of it in what 5 - 15 min max!

[Thief]

...Whatever. Takes me on average an hour and a half, depending on what I've been doing the night before, if I'd stayed up or whatnot.

[Geist]

...Whatever. Takes me on average an hour and a half, depending on what I've been doing the night before, if I'd stayed up or whatnot.

Still thats not a long time. o_O

[Thief]

Yeah, I realize that.

...But if you want to control your periods as well as not worry about kids, the only really non-drastic step is the birth-control shot. If I recall, a hysterectomy is an incredably invasive surgery, and very unnesessary at that since everything else works about as well. This is about the best medium I can think of, at any rate.

[Holy_Aeris]

Your only 16???
Thats an age where you can hate everything!! Your too young to make a decision like that.
Besides, just use protection!

[Thief]

You know what surprises me? People keep saying, "Use protection!" but she hasn't even mentioned being sexually active at all.

[Kiggs]

Okay. I too plan on remaining childfree for my entire life...but I would highly suggest against getting a hysterectomy. I'm NOT going to tell you that you'll change your mind (Because I hated it when people told me that...and still tell me that, for that matter)..but I will say that a doctor definitely would not do it to a young woman without reason until they were around 25ish at the very earliest. And that's a pretty low estimate.

I would suggest looking through the posts around here (http://www.livejournal.com/community/childfree_zone/), and that can give you some more ideas.

But really....getting ovaries removed..that's something to wait for.

[Geist]

You know what surprises me? People keep saying, "Use protection!" but she hasn't even mentioned being sexually active at all.

"She" is very sexually active thank you.


...But if you want to control your periods

I don't want to control them I want to get rid of them. ;)

Your only 16???Thats an age where you can hate everything!!

heres a list for you:

Periods
Babies
Tablets
pop music

But really....getting ovaries removed..that's something to wait for.

Why? I've been stuck with them for nearly 17 years. I don't want or need them so why bother keeping something that is compleatly useless?

[Thief]

I don't want to control them I want to get rid of them. ;)



That's what I meant. An ex of mine got the shot and doesn't get periods at all. I never had sex with her, mind you, but it's what I heard from her.

The girl still has my sunglasses and FLCL manga set, so I need to work on getting that back. -__-

Oh. And if you hadn't mentioned it, I have nothing to go on in that department. Why'd you put she in quotes?

[Kiggs]

Why? I've been stuck with them for nearly 17 years. I don't want or need them so why bother keeping something that is compleatly useless?


Because the operation isn't exactly the safest thing ever. Beside that, in order to do anything of the sort, you would need either parental permission or a real medical reason until you were 18.



If the ovaries are removed in a woman before she reaches menopause, the sudden loss of her main source of female hormones will cause her to suddenly enter menopause (surgical menopause). This can cause more severe symptoms than a natural menopause.

On the other hand, some women suffer serious complications from hysterectomy, even death.

My point is that I know exactly how you feel about having children, but to go through such a proceedure at a young age is dangerous. And as for the "I don't need it" routine, you don't technically need your appendix, but it's only removed when nessecary.

There are other methods of birth control. Look up those before you go consider a painful and potentially serious surgery.

[Il Palazzo]

I'm gonna agree with Kiggs here. Invasive surgery is never a smart option unless you have a serious problem, and you have not tried other avenues of treatment. I am no expert at all, but if your period is causing you serious problems then you can see a doctor, and I believe they can prescribe you medicine- the contraceptive pill is one way, as it supresses periods (making your body think its pregnant, I believe).

Also, you are 16, and much as you might claim that you will never change your mind on something... do you really wish to be that close minded? Yes, it is probable that you won't change your opinion, but imagine if you do. As a smaller example, I was the largest canivore in the world at age 16, in fact, all the way up to about the age of 19, but recently I have decided to become a vegetarian, thanks to various things I have learnt during my life. I do not claim to know your mind, but there is always the change you might change it. OK, you can adopt, but adoption is a difficult process, especially trying to get a newly born child, which can be very frustrating.


So yeah. At least consider this, and possibly go talk to a doctor about this. Consult, be very careful, and do not rush into any decision that will affect you for the rest of your life.

[Geist]

That's what I meant. An ex of mine got the shot and doesn't get periods at all.

I don't fancy having a needle in my arse thanks. :(


Why'd you put she in quotes?

because you called me a she and I would like you to use my name not "She".

My point is that I know exactly how you feel about having children, but to go through such a proceedure at a young age is dangerous. And as for the "I don't need it" routine, you don't technically need your appendix, but it's only removed when nessecary.

But you don't though!

Its enough to not want kids which is fine and your opinion I'm repulsed at the sight of them I want to strangle them whenever I'm around one.

I'm gonna agree with Kiggs here. Invasive surgery is never a smart option unless you have a serious problem, and you have not tried other avenues of treatment. I am no expert at all, but if your period is causing you serious problems then you can see a doctor, and I believe they can prescribe you medicine- the contraceptive pill is one way, as it supresses periods

Yeah but I don't like taking tablets. The only time I do is when I'm seriouly ill. I don't want a needle in my arse every 6 months and I don't want a peice of metal inside me eaither.

OK, you can adopt, but adoption is a difficult process, especially trying to get a newly born child, which can be very frustrating.

Well I probably wouldn't adopt a newly born baby just a kid or not at all probably.

[Vivi]

the contraceptive pill is one way, as it supresses periods

I agree. Myself I would have recommended you taking the contraceptive pill aswell. It stops children and supresses periods. But:

Yeah but I don't like taking tablets. The only time I do is when I'm seriouly ill.

If that's your attitude, are you really mature enough to make a decision as big as this? (Don't take offence..)

[Geist]

If that's your attitude, are you really mature enough to make a decision as big as this? (Don't take offence..)

I'll take offence to whatever I please. I just don't like taking pills. My mum takes paracetomals like it candy sometimes and it scares me so I just don't bother unless I need to.

[Nurse Fin]

Uhm... why is it that they bother you so much even though there's nothing wrong with them? I mean, if your periods aren't like bleeding, but hemorrhaging to the point that it's painful and makes you really sick.. then there WOULD be something wrong with them (even though it's not overly serious... I hope <_>). I forgot the name for that condition, but it's not something I'm unfamiliar with >.> Still, I don't want to get my ovaries removed.

I also hate taking pills, but I take 'em anyway, because I can't do any of the alternatives. Sure, the side effects are eating away at my constitution, and that's no fun, but that's something fixable. I don't think there's a way to get rid of or suppress those things without some kind of nasty side effect.

I think the option that you find ideal has the worst side effects of all. It's something permanant, and can throw your entire body off-balance.. eh, they're just not things that can be removed for no real reason.

My thoughts. :\

[Geist]

I think the option that you find ideal has the worst side effects of all. It's something permanant, and can throw your entire body off-balance.. eh, they're just not things that can be removed for no real reason.

The whole point of it is that it is permanant.

Why not though? We peirce and tattoo ourselves why not this? I don't understand why everuone has a negative attitude to it. The whole point is that its permanant and that it stops me having children thats all it does and thats all I want it to do.

[Vivi]

And if you change your mind?

[Geist]

And if you change your mind?

I won't. If you live one day as me you would know that I would never change my mind.

[Vivi]

Well you never know. Minds and opinions evolve with age. One day you might meet the perfect guy and he might just sway you to having kids. ^_^

[Geist]

Well you never know. Minds and opinions evolve with age. One day you might meet the perfect guy and he might just sway you to having kids. ^_^

:yuck: No man will bother cause they probably don't want them eaither.

[Nurse Fin]

Tattoos and piercings aren't permanant (I also consider them cosmetic, and getting your ovaries removed is definitely not for cosmetic reasons). They can always be undone. However, doing something as dangerous as this would most likely lead to extremely undesireable aftereffects.. and once the job is done, it's done.

All I'm saying is that if your ovaries are removed, your physical health will get extremely messed up as a result, and I really don't think it's worth it.

[Mig]

You'd rather have a potentially lethal operation than having a pill every so often? You need to think about this with a broader mind...

"She" is very sexually active thank you
the sudden loss of her main source of female hormones will cause her to suddenly enter menopause
I don't need them
But you do. If you're very sexually active, are you sure you really want to lose your main source of hormones?

Point is, at the minute, you're refusing to listen to/believe what everyone's said so far. You're refusing to sway your opinion. But the side effects are a lot more disastrous than you expect. You'll change a lot. This is extremely serious, you need to take in every side of the argument and consider them carefully, not just one.

Think. About. It.

Do you want to risk your life your (sex)life, just so you don't have to take some pills every what? once a month?

[Smaug]

Yeah but I don't like taking tablets. The only time I do is when I'm seriouly ill. I don't want a needle in my arse every 6 months and I don't want a peice of metal inside me eaither.
That's just being lazy. Taking the pill controls your periods, yes, but they don't cause any serious damage like HAVING YOUR OVARIES REMOVED. Seriously, your body is dependant on nearly every organ inside it. If one is damaged/removed, then it will cause serious problems for the rest of your body. Like it or not, you need your ovaries.

No-one likes taking pills or having injections - but it's something we all have to do at one point. Hell, I have to take hepatitis shots every few months, because of my job. And even I don't like injections, but I have to take it anyway, because it's a job requirement. You can't just live a risk-free life forever, unless you had overprotective parents who shielded you from what the real world is like. At some point in you life, you just have to swallow your pride, bite your tongue and take the pain.

So which is it - having your ovaries removed and risk having fatal consequences or taking the pill/injection and risk loosing your safe, pain-free world? I'll leave you to decide on that.

[Thief]

Plus, the scars of a hysterectomy are probably unsightly and that would ruin your sex life for sure. :P

[Il Palazzo]

I'm going to move this again. I don't have that much more to add. If you aren't going to listen to us, then perhaps you should talk to a doctor about it. I suspect that they would agree with us.

[Geist]

Plus, the scars of a hysterectomy are probably unsightly and that would ruin your sex life for sure. :P

^_^ Good. It might keep a few people away for a while!

Do you want to risk your (sex)life

YES! Sometimes I wonder why I bother having one! All they bloody do is shag me and bugger off so it might discorage that. Actually it'll stop it all together XD.

I suspect that they would agree with us.

I know they probably will. It doesn't stop me wanting it. Like it doesn't stop other people taking drugs.

[Vivi]

Don't girls get most of their hormones from their ovaries? You'll lose a hell of a lot more than periods and the ability to have children if you get em removed >_>

[Geist]

Don't girls get most of their hormones from their ovaries? You'll lose a hell of a lot more than periods and the ability to have children if you get em removed >_>

Actually not having periods was only another plus the main reason for getting it done was so I could never have children to be compleatly honest with you.

[Thief]

YES! Sometimes I wonder why I bother having one! All they bloody do is shag me and bugger off so it might discorage that. Actually it'll stop it all together XD.

So then you can't control yourself, huh? o_O That's sad. It's like saying you're addicted but think it's disgusting.

...Actually, to use an analogy, you sound like my friends who are still smoking cigerettes. The only difference is that they don't want their lungs removed.

[Geist]

So then you can't control yourself, huh? o_O That's sad. It's like saying you're addicted but think it's disgusting.

...Actually, to use an analogy, you sound like my friends who are still smoking cigerettes. The only difference is that they don't want their lungs removed.

Actually its not addiction. I fall for my boyfriends and they use me. If I have no ovaries I have no desire to reprduce and if I have no desire to reproduce I won't be hurt again.

[Nurse Fin]

If that's the only reason, don't get boyfriends, then. o.O Being a narcissist is more fun, anyway.. bleh. I don't think I'm going to reply to this topic again, it just seems too ridiculous. :\

[Vivi]

Actually not having periods was only another plus the main reason for getting it done was so I could never have children to be compleatly honest with you.

I knew that, I was just saying that you'll lose more than the periods and the ability to have children.

I fall for my boyfriends and they use me. If I have no ovaries I have no desire to reprduce and if I have no desire to reproduce I won't be hurt again.

Also, if this is what happens in your relationship, there's something wrong.. Maybe you should have a boyfriend, but not have sex with them for a while. As in, wait a while before having sex. Gain some trust.
I mean if you're getting boyfriends and having sex with them straight away.......
Maybe you should hold back.

[Minion]

Ugh. Blatant time.

I've read this thread over a few times, and didn't bother to post. Now, I am. Whoopdee. Onto the subject.

#1: If you have your ovaries removed...it. will. not. be. good. Do you understand that, at all?! You'll be in worse shape then if you just didn't have kids and left your hormone-factories right where they are. Mag had a point when he said soemthing about pills controlling your periods. I'm a guy, but seriously, it's a part of life, deal with it.

#2: The boyfriend situation. If it's that bad, just stop talking to males, period. If they're that much trouble, just don't talk to them. The "shag and bugger off" situation just wotnt happen. Or you could become a lesbian.

It's obvious that you think your opinion is above everyone elses. That's good, to a point. But, we're trying to help you, and you blow us off.

It's the internet, we can't go over and foricbly tell you no.

Do what you like, i'm tired of this.

[Ozma Omega]

Okay, I'm going to be a bit more direct this time, as it doesn't look like it'll have much of an effect otherwise. First of all, Geist, these people are trying to help you make a huge decision, it's not a debate. They're taking the time to give you advice. You're being rather rude.

Well, starting from the top...

Babies and periods - I know tons of people who can't see themselves ever having kids. So quite simply, they use protection. The pill does control periods as far as I know, and as the others have said, you could always take shots or something instead. If you don't want kids, don't have kids. It's that simple. You have a choice, you know.

Getting your ovaries removed is ridiculously drastic. As the others have said (and you seem to be ignoring), it'll seriously mess you up, maybe so much you can die from it. You most likely won't be able to go through with it anyway. If there's nothing wrong, just leave them alone. Yeah, to you they might be useless, but so are nails, hair and lots of other things. Yes, I know they don't give you periods, but there are better ways of preventing them.

Pills and shots - You can't stand pills and shots, but you're fine with someone poking around your insides and ripping out something that balances your body? I don't see the logic. Your ovaries are there for more reasons than babies and periods. I really wouldn't mess with them.

No man will bother cause they probably don't want them eaither.

YES! Sometimes I wonder why I bother having one! All they bloody do is shag me and bugger off so it might discorage that. Actually it'll stop it all together XD.

Okay, that is an extremely shallow image of guys. I'm a guy, and I know I want kids in the future. Hell, I think all my guy friends do. And quite frankly, I'd never 'shag and bugger off'. You're obviously in the wrong crowd if your experience with guys is that bad. Try to avoid the playboy types. Now you're basically saying "I want to be completely alone my whole life." It's fine if you do, but it's not a decision you should make when you're 16.

Actually its not addiction. I fall for my boyfriends and they use me. If I have no ovaries I have no desire to reprduce and if I have no desire to reproduce I won't be hurt again.

Would you get rid of all your emotions and become a complete robot if you could? If no, you should see my point. If yes, reconsider. You're making it sound like you don't have a will of your own. If you don't like babies or guys, just stay away from them for now.

Sorry if I'm being harsh, but I hope you've noticed the fact that not a single person who's posted in this thread has agreed that getting your ovaries removed is a good idea. Please take that into consideration. We don't know any less about it than you do, unless of course you've done lots of in-depth research on the matter.

I'm rambling now, so I'll stop. I hope I achieved at least something with this. Again, sorry for being harsh, I just felt it was necessary.

[Kaii]

It's an irrevocable decision. You don't make those yet; you're too young. And this is coming from someone younger than you. Sure, they suck, but Jesus, that's not the thing to do.

[Geist]

Getting your ovaries removed is ridiculously drastic. As the others have said it'll seriously mess you up, maybe so much you can die from it. You most likely won't be able to go through with it anyway. If there's nothing wrong, just leave them alone. Yeah, to you they might be useless, but so are nails, hair and lots of other things. Yes, I know they don't give you periods, but there are better ways of preventing them.

Pills and shots - you're fine with someone poking around your insides and ripping out something that balances your body? I don't see the logic. Your ovaries are there for more reasons than babies and periods. I really wouldn't mess with them.

Personally I find spending thousands of Pounds, Dollars, Euros on getting your breasts to a D cup more drastic to be honest with you.

Ovaries produce oestrogen and progestarone(sp?) which control your periods there isn't much else they do down there.

As for death. Everyone dies any way its all cold hard statistics like they drill into your head at school how, when, why, where. Its irrelivent.



Okay, that is an extremely shallow image of guys. I'm a guy, and I know I want kids in the future. Hell, I think all my guy friends do. And quite frankly, I'd never 'shag and bugger off'. You're obviously in the wrong crowd if your experience with guys is that bad. Try to avoid the playboy types. Now you're basically saying "I want to be completely alone my whole life." It's fine if you do, but it's not a decision you should make when you're 16.

No offence (even though it probably will offend you) but thats just genetics telling you to keep your own genes alive. I personally can't see why you want to have one when all they do is leach off you to survive and then they leave and have it done to them.

Would you get rid of all your emotions and become a complete robot if you could? If no, you should see my point. If yes, reconsider. You're making it sound like you don't have a will of your own. If you don't like babies or guys, just stay away from them for now.

In tecnical terms I have no free will no one does. Your forced to go to school or whatever your forced to get a job. This is all for "Survival" but it gets you thinking what was life like before greed took over our minds? What happened to sharing and all that?

It's an irrevocable decision. You don't make those yet; you're too young. And this is coming from someone younger than you. Sure, they suck, but Jesus, that's not the thing to do.

So when should I? when I'm old and crippled?

I can think of much worse things to do to myself than that but the only differance is there is a point to this and not to what I could think up in my head.

I understand that I could die. But you can die from snowboarding, walking down the road if you live life in a protective shell then I might aswell be dead.

[Vivi]

You know what? I've lost interest in trying to help you now, as you have obviously made up your mind. Get your ovaries removed. Become an emotionless, stupid, robot. I really couldn't care less anymore.


Oh and breast implants are cosmetic. This isn't, by the way.

[Smaug]

*sigh* Do you even pay attention to what you say? Having breast implants and having your ovaries removed are two completely different coins. Breast surgery, as Vivi stated is cosmic surgery, unlike a hysterectomy. You don't gain anything from it except for a possible shorter lifespan, so why bother trying to combat everyone trying to convince you otherwise?

Also, you sound like your genes are telling you to bash the other gender for no particular reason. That's not a genetic disorder, that's called having an attitude problem, and it was uncalled for.

As for you saying that no-one has free will, that's not entirely true. We ALL have free will. Everyone can make a choice in life. Yes, your parents force you to go to school, but the choice on whether to attend or not is yours. Same goes for work; No-one forces you to get a job. That's entirely your choice whether you want to earn money or live on the streets like a bum. Likewise, no-one is forcing you to have your ovaries removed, because it's your choice on whether or not you want to keep them. Are you, by chance, trying to tell us that someone wants you to have a hysterectomy?

One more thing - death does happen to everyone at one particular point, but that doesn't mean that gives you the right to go all emo and say that "Everyone dies, who cares about living?" You have a dream or a goal in life, don't you? Why don't you try working towards that goal instead of having such a negative attitude about life. Also, dying from snowboarding and road accidents are all accidental deaths, so again, there's no need to be so negative about it.

To sum up this post, you need to drop the negative attitude and listen to what other people might say to you. Who knows? Maybe you could learn something from them.

[Ozma Omega]

As I suspected, my last post meant absolutely nothing.

Personally I find spending thousands of Pounds, Dollars, Euros on getting your breasts to a D cup more drastic to be honest with you.

Can you explain what that has to do with anything? Yeah, I think doing that is stupid too, but it's not what we're talking about here, is it? You're comparing what you want to do to drugs and breast implants. Why? To prove there are worse decisions out there? It's not exactly a solid argument if you want to prove we're all wrong.

As for death. Everyone dies any way its all cold hard statistics like they drill into your head at school how, when, why, where. Its irrelivent.

I understand that I could die. But you can die from snowboarding, walking down the road if you live life in a protective shell then I might aswell be dead.

Okay, so since people die in accidents, you don't care about your life? I fail to see the logic. Basically, your argument through this whole thread has been "I'll do this because other people make bad decisions". Disagreeing with everyone is one thing, but that's just not a good reason to. At all.

No offence (even though it probably will offend you) but thats just genetics telling you to keep your own genes alive. I personally can't see why you want to have one when all they do is leach off you to survive and then they leave and have it done to them.

I'm not anymore 'genetic' than you are, you know. And aren't we getting a bit too Freudy? If you want to be technical, then you and lots of other women are awfully upset because you don't have a penis. :) And if that's your view of children, that's fine, but I have my own, thanks.

In tecnical terms I have no free will no one does. Your forced to go to school or whatever your forced to get a job. This is all for "Survival" but it gets you thinking what was life like before greed took over our minds? What happened to sharing and all that?

Once again, where's the logic? You have to go to school, therefore you have to have boyfriends and kids unless you destroy part of your body? These "techical terms" are completely irrelevant. You're just avoiding the comments.

I'm getting rather fed up with this. This is the LHH, not Debates and Discussions. Are you going to keep ungratefully blowing off every single person who tries to help you? Yes or no? If you are, I don't see the point of keeping this thread open. These posts don't seem to have any effect at all. Frankly it's just a waste of everybody's time.

I don't think I have anything else to add. If it continues like this, the thread goes to the bin. Have a nice day. :)

[Kaii]

So when should I? when I'm old and crippled?

How about at least when you're in your 20s or 30s?

[Minion]

Personally I find spending thousands of Pounds, Dollars, Euros on getting your breasts to a D cup more drastic to be honest with you.

That has nothing to do with a hysterectomy. Quit changing the subject.

As for death. Everyone dies any way its all cold hard statistics like they drill into your head at school how, when, why, where. Its irrelivent.

There's better ways to go about it. Suicide's a good one.

No offence (even though it probably will offend you) but thats just genetics telling you to keep your own genes alive. I personally can't see why you want to have one when all they do is leach off you to survive and then they leave and have it done to them.

...and you don't? You're 16, you're in highschool, I doubt you'd have a job, so who's paying for all your shit? Your parents. In fact, you're possibly doing to them what you say children do in the first place.

In tecnical terms I have no free will no one does. Your forced to go to school or whatever your forced to get a job.

Riiight. People in third-world countries don't have free will, instead they have to do whatever they can to get money and so forth. no one's forced to go to school. You have free will, it's just in the boundries of right and wrong. Don't give us this robot-will BS, we're not buying it.

This is all for "Survival" but it gets you thinking what was life like before greed took over our minds? What happened to sharing and all that?

Ok, See.... The world is not this greed-filled, hate-populated cesspool of Sin that you make it out to be. Sure, there's bad things. Watch CNN, if you want to find that out.

There are, on the other hand, good people out there that want to help people, regardless of what happens. People survive because, in a sense, they want to. Hence, free will.

I understand that I could die. But you can die from snowboarding, walking down the road if you live life in a protective shell then I might aswell be dead.

Humor me, please.

You can die, at any time, sure. But that doesn't mean life isn't worth living. It's views like yours that make people depressed.

[Kaii]

There's better ways to go about it. Suicide's a good one.

Whoa, don't joke about that, especially not in LHH. After removing ovaries at the age of sixteen, suicide's the next most drastic thing I can think of to stop menstruation.

And sure, they're a bitch, but if every other woman on this planet can live through it, I'm sure you'll manage fine.

[Minion]

Alright, my fault.

Anyway, Geist. Have you even talked to your parents about this, or have you just decided, on a whim, that you'll get these removed? Besides, the cost would be very high for this type of surgery.

[Beatrix the Goddess]

There's better ways to go about it. Suicide's a good one.

Too close to the line Min, you know the rules. No more of that.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow...can't believe I missed this thread o_O This is certainly not just a debate.

Geist, if you're going to apprach this responsibly, I want you to read all of what I have to say. There's a lot of it, but I want you to read it thoroughly. I'm not judging you - I agree with you about kids - but I think there are some things you need to know.

Out of all the points made by you, there was one that particularly caught my eye:

Ovaries produce oestrogen and progestarone(sp?) which control your periods there isn't much else they do down there.

You should certainly not be considering this when you are clearly ignorant of the anatomical and biochemical issues involved. As you've already been told, a hysterectomy induces a premature menopause which can be painful and distressing even when it occurs naturally. For it to occur unnaturally is worse. You say that you don't like periods - is this perhaps that you suffer from PMS? PMS occurs due to abnormally low levels of pregesterone; exascerbatinng this problem by inducing early menopause through ovary removal will seriously mess you up and give you many unwanted symptoms. Also, women who enter the menopause are a group that is at very high risk of developing osteoperosis due to the drop in ostrogen/progesterone levels which are normally protective to women's bones. At 16 your bones are still developing and exposing yourself to osteoperosis now will give you a lifelong problem - those even more at risk are women who have the menopause before the age of 45. You clearly haven't researched this properly otherwise you'd know that the majority of menopausal women take calcium supplements, among other things, to prevent this. That means pills, which you apparently don't like.

Also, oestrogen does not only control periods - oestrogen is the reason that you are a woman & not a man. Apart from being simply a hormone (all hormones are vital communicators between different parts of your body - hence why glandular diseases or glandular removals are so serious), oestrogen is specifically a sex hormone. Sex does not just mean sexual intercourse, periods and pregnancy. Oestrogen is the reason you have breasts, why you have a feminine voice, and in fact its responsible for why you have sexual desires at all. That's why puberty is associated with increased sexual activity - because your level of oestrogen rises dramatically. Conversely its also why women's sex drives drop, in the majority of caees, after the menopause, because oestrogen levels decrease. Without your ovaries & oestrogen, what's left of your sexual organs wouldn't develop or function properly, and you may experience other changes in your voice and body hair loss/gain. You'll also severely upset your hypothalamus and pituitary gland which will secrete more of other hormones (FSH etc.) in an attempt to stimulate your ovaries. This is what causes the distressing symptoms of the menopause - hot flushes, headaches, mood swings & so on. Hypthalamic dysfunction has also been linked to many other disorders - anorexia is the first one that springs to mind, and bullimia. Having a premature menopause would certainly play absolute havoc with your moods, and could lead to depression through severe biochemical dysfunction.

If you mean to do something, know what you're getting into. Is a hysterectomy worth all that? Just for the sake of not having children? Taking pills, having a cap, an injection or using condoms, all of them are far less distressing. And there's the operation itself. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound like you've ever had an operation before. Do you have any idea how traumatising they can be? In general; there are the effects of general anasthetics which are horrible, you'll probably feel as sick as a parrot for a good while. The pain of the wound will be extremely uncomfortable - have you really considered what surgery is? Cutting you open, rumaging around & ripping things out? Is that preferable to taking pills? Yes you'll be out cold, but those few minutes when you're taken down to theatre are terifying - believe me.

And as for a hysterectomy itself, you've got two types - in one they entirely remove your womb and you cervix, plus possibly your ovaries & fallopian tubes. In the other type, its just the top part of your womb and possibly ovaries & fallopian tubes; your cervix is left. Thuese are done either through cutting your abdomen open or removing the necessary through your vagina. Also there is keyhole surgery with a laproscope. Ay of these three methods will leave you with pretty bad abdominal or vaginal pain. The first type is a very serious and large operation, but is usually the method of choice when the ovaries are being removed. Hence you're looking at something pretty serious. You'd be in hospital for at least a week, maybe more. You ever been in hospital that long? It is horrible. You'll be insane with boredome & pain & frustration after that - its definitely not worth going through unless you have to. You'll have no privacy either. You said in an earlier thread that you can't stand touching flesh to flesh with people - they'll be a lot of that for when you need help going to the loo & so on. Also you'll be in a ward so you'll get no privacy. And to top it off its at least eight weeks before you can get back to work/study. Can you afford that? Have you considered the strain on your family from looking after you for that time? Have you asked whether they'd do it? Possible complications during a hystetrectomy are ones for normal operations: deep vein thrombosis plus the anathestic. However there is also added risk because the tubes from the kidneys to the bladder and part of the bowels are very close to the womb. If these are damaged you are at serious risk of infection. After the operation - you'll be on a drip. You think you hate needles? You haven't felt anything yet; a drip is a million times worse. Its not just a needle - its a tube as well; a tube that's stuck into your hand & every time you move you can feel it moving around inside your vein. You may need a catheter too, which is very embarrassing. Its likely you'll also be given several injections to reduce the risk of blood clotting (more needles) for a few days afterwards. The majority of women are treated with both pain relievf and hormones afterwards, because of the severity of post-op symptoms. That's a lot of pills. In the long term - hysterectomies have ben linked to later cardiovasuclar disease. Also; you're British - you've seen all the headlines recently - you'd be mad to have an un-necessary operation with all the MRSA that's about.

And you want to do all that, just to avoid using contraception & periods? I can understand why you don't want children - I feel the same at the moment - and that the fear of getting pregnant is always a slight shadow over your sex life, but that can be overcome without such drastic options, you know. Going on the Pill really isn't that bad. Marvelon - the lightest version there is - not only stops you getting pregnant, but it regulates your periods to the extent that you know the day you're going to start and the day you're going to finish, which makes things much more convenient. It also makes your periods lighter if you suffer from heavy periods. Its a tiny, tiny pill - not difficult to swallow at all, and it really has no noticeable side effects, except perhaps a slight headache on one day during your "off" week. But that's nothing. And that's not even the only way either - you can have injections or a combination of condoms & Femidoms (women's version) for double safety. But honestly - the hassle of periods is 95% reduced by going on the Pill. There are so many other options out there for you, rather than this one. I'm not going to tell you that you'll change your mind - many women have no desire to have children - however many women avoid pregnancy without resorting to a hysterectomy. Doing this won't just stp you having children & periods, it will alter your life in other ways as well.

Anyway, you'd have to get parental consent whilst you're under 18, and also, any GP worth his salt would not let you have this done for the reasons you're stating. Generally the only reason for removing healthy ovaries is to prevent ovarian cancer and that's not done until about the age of 40.

So please...just think long & hard. Its not just kids & periods that are at stake here - its your quality of life both now and in the future, and your femininity. There are other ways to get you out of this problem. :) If you want to talk more about it & discuss your options, please pm or email me & we'll talk through it before you take action.

[Tallulah]

Listen, Geist, I think you might be suffering from depression. It would be a good idea to see your GP on such matters.

Also, from what you've said, you might also have polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) which can be treated effectively. You need a referral from your GP for a scan (yes the same one pregnany women have) to identify cysts on your ovaries. A certain type of contraceptive pill (Dianette) is an effective treatment of this, but there are also other, more effective treatments now available (I'm just sticking to my old treatment -- it works for me). However, if the treatment you're given doesn't seem to help, or you get side-effects, it's probably not right for you, and you'll need to get it changed.

Also...
Yeah but I don't like taking tablets.
Neither do I, but I have to. I have an underactive thyroid (a condition which my mum and my nan also have) and this means I have to take tablets every day for the rest of my life, otherwise risk becoming obese (hypothyroidism slows down your metabolism, which makes sufferers put on weight, and I mean a LOT of weight!) and having to deal with the consequences of that, including death. I think having to take a tablet every day is a small price to pay to avoid the alternative.

[Geist]

As I suspected, my last post meant absolutely nothing.

Oh, and by the way, it's Ozma Omega, not Omaga.

Not true I listen and read all of your posts I just don't adhear to your opinions.

Sorry typo.


I'm getting rather fed up with this. This is the LHH, not Debates and Discussions. Are you going to keep ungratefully blowing off every single person who tries to help you? Yes or no? If you are, I don't see the point of keeping this thread open. These posts don't seem to have any effect at all. Frankly it's just a waste of everybody's time.

I don't think I have anything else to add. If it continues like this, the thread goes to the bin. Have a nice day. :)

Well I did originally post this thread in D&D but it was moved.

XDD I haven't had a nice day for a while now!

There's better ways to go about it. Suicide's a good one.

I think about commiting suicide every time the light in my room goes out and all there is is me in my bed with the dim light of my clock keeping me awake. Believe me when I say I don't have the mental strength of will to kill myself.

Anyway, Geist. Have you even talked to your parents about this, or have you just decided, on a whim, that you'll get these removed? Besides, the cost would be very high for this type of surgery.

Yes right after I told them that I thought I suffered from a disorder called Boarderline. They laughed at me and told me I was being funny.

Wow...can't believe I missed this thread This is certainly not just a debate.

Its been moved twice so thats probably why you missed it.

I read your post and you've made me realise something. I hate myself. Not mentally but physicly. I hate the fact that I am what I am. Even though I knew that having an operation like this would change me they way you described its never really bothered me as such. Answer your questions yes I've been in hospital for more than a week yes I've been on a drip thats why I hate injections.

You said in an earlier thread that you can't stand touching flesh to flesh with people

that was Miko not me. I just feel ill around men I don't trust.

Eh, not to compleatly focus down on me. But I do have this problem. Though, it is just a trust problem I have. It has to do with some past family problems that has caused me to not trust many people. That is why I don't like most people around me. I can't stand to touch flesh to flesh with anyone, or even look at them. It almost makes me sick. One of the reasons why I like to be online.


Listen, Geist, I think you might be suffering from depression. It would be a good idea to see your GP on such matters.

You've told me this before and I know I suffer from depression I don't really need someone in white coat to tell me this believe me. I have ears and a brain and despite popular belief I do use both of them.

[Vivi]

I think about commiting suicide every time the light in my room goes out and all there is is me in my bed with the dim light of my clock keeping me awake.

Geist, I know that if someone really is suicidal, they don't broadcast it on the internet to a bunch of people they don't know personally. If you really are that bad, go to the doctor. You can get some pills there. I know you dislike taking pills, but, get over it.

Also. I think you're swaying towards just looking for arguments now... >_>

[Geist]

Geist, I know that if someone really is suicidal, they don't broadcast it on the internet to a bunch of people they don't know personally. If you really are that bad, go to the doctor. You can get some pills there. I know you dislike taking pills, but, get over it.

Also. I think you're swaying towards just looking for arguments now... >_>

I TOLD you I think about it! Its the truth and if you don't believe me I don't care :P

Can I just ask what happened to I don't care I'm not posting on this thread anymore person that posted at the top of the page?

[Vivi]

Actually, Fin said she wasn't posting here again. I just said I've had enough of helping you with your ovaries debate.

[Minion]

People can post here as much as they like.

Just becuase you think you have some sort of imbalance, disease, etc. That doesn't mean you have it. It'd be best to check with a professional. Find a doctor or maybe someone in your school to talk with you about this.

[Geist]

Just becuase you think you have some sort of imbalance, disease, etc. That doesn't mean you have it. It'd be best to check with a professional. Find a doctor or maybe someone in your school to talk with you about this.

Yeah thats an idea and while they are at it they can go and broadcast it to my perants at the same time!

Oh yeah BTW I do work thanks

[Kiggs]

My sister is a psychologist. I was planning on being one myself, and have many, many university hours in psychology. And I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that self-diagnosing is BAD.

Here's what you do. You calmly explain to your parents that you think you may have a problem beyond the normal teenage angst. Don't give specifics, just ask if you could see a pyschologist. If you calmly and rationally explain that things don't feel right to you, then your parents may just take you.

If they won't, go to a school counselor.

As far as telling your parents? A school counselor CAN'T unless you are a danger to yourself or others. And if you are indeed a danger, then they NEED TO KNOW.

[krikie]

Ok. My first time posting here.

Personally, I think you aren't mature enough to make that choice. You are 16. You aren't even 1/4 done with your life yet. You are way too young. And the fact that you just push everybody's advice off to the side make you so much more immature in this matter. If you really were mature, you'd have an open mind. And you'd care about what people have to say. And you'd care that they are trying to help you out.

Also, I'm not saying that you ARE, but I'm saying that you might change your mind. I'm 2 years younger than you. I change about every 2 months. I don't think that in 2 years I would be even near fit to make that choice.

I also don't see why you want to take out your ovaries. I love mine, I love being emotional. I feel so much more human, and it's a wonderful feeling when you cry at the end of practically every movie ever made. Don't you like to cry once in a while? Don't you like to laugh? If you had them taken out, and it effected your emotions to where you felt less inclined to laugh, that could be unhealthy. Laughing is one of the best things for your health. I suggest you do it more often, and then maybe you'd be better off.

And periods aren't all that bad, really. It's a week long, if not shorter. You bleed. You need to do it. It's not right to have that taken away. Shots aren't bad either, you could get the shot. It takes two seconds. So does swallowing pills. Two seconds every so often won't add up to the time it takes during surgery, plus the difference it'll make in your life. And not for the better.

Sorry if that sounded harsh in anyway, but I just think that you're being kind of ignorant. And like Kiggs said,
Here's what you do. You calmly explain to your parents that you think you may have a problem beyond the normal teenage angst. Don't give specifics, just ask if you could see a pyschologist. If you calmly and rationally explain that things don't feel right to you, then your parents may just take you'

Seriously, Think about it.

[Beatrix the Goddess]

Self-diagnosis is all very well, but that doesn't lead to treatment does it? Its fine saying "Oh, I know I'm depressed", but, as this thread shows, you obviously don't know how to deal with it, and you need help with that. Both GPs and counsellors are obliged to keep your appointments confidential until you say otherwise, so there's no need to let your parents know just yet :) I know its hard taking that first step, but after you have, things will become much easier and you'll get the help you need. Its very wrong of your parents to laugh at you, and there's no way that any professional person will do that - you will be taken seriously. Your first step should be to make an appointment with your GP, discuss your problem, and ask to be referred to a psychologist. DON'T just let him/her prescribe your Prozac; you must ask to be referred. Honestly, you'll feel so much better once something is being done - you don't have to put up with it for the rest of your life.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On another note - Vivi, can I please refer you to the section in the rules concerning suicide - its a very sensitive subject area and what you're saying is not appropriate. Please refrain from it in the future.

[Geist]

I also don't see why you want to take out your ovaries. I love mine, I love being emotional. I feel so much more human, and it's a wonderful feeling when you cry at the end of practically every movie ever made. Don't you like to cry once in a while? Don't you like to laugh? If you had them taken out, and it effected your emotions to where you felt less inclined to laugh, that could be unhealthy. Laughing is one of the best things for your health. I suggest you do it more often, and then maybe you'd be better off.

Because they are a hinderancy. I hate being emotional it makes me feel weak. I hate crying and laughing they don't make me feel any better than I did before so why does my stupid body insist on doing it!

[Minion]

See, crying and laughing, are basic human functions. Crying about something when you're sad is normal, as is laughing when you're happy or find something funny.

I'm tired of this. Go get 'em removed, if you want. We tried to help, and you're not listening.

[Geist]

But why do we do it what makes it "Normal"?

[Minion]

Breathing is normal, so is thinking, so is eating, so is sleeping. Why do you do it?

Because, in a sense, you have no control over it. You have to breathe, you have to eat, you have to sleep, to survive.

[Geist]

But laughing and crying doesn't help nutrtion or oxygen into your body.

[krikie]

Laughing is healthy for you.

Even for your body o:
Laughing 100 times is the equivalent to 10 minutes on the rowing machine or 15 minutes on an exercise bike!
http://library.thinkquest.org/25500/index2.htm
Laughing makes us feel good for a reason. The physiological effects on our body do some pretty amazing stunts. For instance:

Laughter appears to reduce levels of certain stress hormones, and growth hormone. Laughter provides a safety valve that shuts off the flow of stress hormones and the fight-or-flight compounds that comes into action in times of stress, rage or hostility. Stress hormones suppress the immune system, increase the number of platelets (which can cause obstructions in arteries), and raise blood pressure.
Laughter boosts the Immune System. When in a state of mirth, natural killer cells that destroy tumors and viruses increase, as do Gamma-interferon (a disease fighting protein), T-cells, which are a vital part of the immune response, and B-cells, which make disease-destroying antibodies. It also increases the concentration of salivary immunoglobulin A, which defends against the entry of infectious organisms through the respiratory tract. Laughter basically brings balance to all the components of the immune system.

Laughter can be an total body workout!
Blood Pressure is lowered, and there is an increase in vascular blood flow, and an increase in oxygenation of the blood which further assists healing.
Laughter may lead to hiccuping and coughing, which will clear the respiratory tract by dislodging mucus plugs.
Laughter also gives your diaphragm and abdominal, respiratory and facial, leg and back muscles a workout. So basically laughter is an all over body workout. You can have fun, keep fit, and stay healthy in one easy step! Just Laugh!
There also has been some belief that laughter may help prevent some life-threatening diseases such as heart disease. Anger and fear, are two common emotions, which are frequently responsible for the cause of heart attacks.

But back on the subject, you really will be healthier without the surgery >.>

[Minion]

Ok, you're just doing this to annoy the people who are genuinely trying to help you.

If you were serious about this, you would stop being childish, and possibly take some of the information people are taking into consideration.

[Smaug]

But why do we do it what makes it "Normal"?
Are you implying that you're not normal, that you have to break the cycle of life because you're tired of doing "the same things that everyone else does"? We're all the same in one aspect or another. We live, we laugh, we cry, we bleed, we die. It's what makes us human, and there's no avoiding it.

Also, it is not a 'weakness' as you put it. Emotions are what makes us strong, and as a species, we're blessed with that gift. Why do you want to bottle up your emotions, like it's stale milk? You should at least be grateful that you're alive, let alone feel anything. Even if they doesn't benefit us in terms of health, emotions can express what's on your mind. It is not a crime, nor it is evil to feel. This isn't Equilibrium, so stop with the angst and start being human for once.

[Geist]

Are you implying that you're not normal, that you have to break the cycle of life because you're tired of doing "the same things that everyone else does"? We're all the same in one aspect or another. We live, we laugh, we cry, we bleed, we die. It's what makes us human, and there's no avoiding it.

Also, it is not a 'weakness' as you put it. Emotions are what makes us strong, and as a species, we're blessed with that gift. Why do you want to bottle up your emotions, like it's stale milk? You should at least be grateful that you're alive, let alone feel anything. Even if they doesn't benefit us in terms of health, emotions can express what's on your mind. It is not a crime, nor it is evil to feel. This isn't Equilibrium, so stop with the angst and start being human for once.


I never said I wasn't human.

But it feels like one laughing and crying has never felt normal to me.. trying to feel love for another yes but crying just makes me feel so down and laughing doesn't make me happy..

[Tim]

I think you should do it. You're so passionate about it, and refuse to listen to anyone else or care about the consequences.

Do it. I bet you won't. :)

[Beatrix the Goddess]

Minion, SiouxMoonMage, I'm fed up with having to tell people how to behave in this thread. If you no longer feel you can offer anything constructive, don't post. Nothing remotely close to flaming is allowed here & you are entirely too close to it. SMM, since you're fairly new, I suggest you take a quick look at the rules thread for this forum - they have to be more stringent in here for obvious reasons :) Minion, you've got no excuse. One more offence and I'll stop your posting in this forum.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Geist....I see you've got some emotional problems (don't we all), but you know, those can be solved without such drastic measures :) And anyway, I'm sorry to disappoint you but you won't find any decent GP or consultant or surgeon who will perform a hysterectomy on you at your age. Certainly not on the NHS. There may be a few rogues in private medicine who would do it but you'd be mad to put your life in their hands, and it'd cost the earth anyway. Your chances are really very very small, regardless of how much you want it. So why not at least look at other options? Ones that are more feasible - your problems can be overcome. You'll find that hormones aren't the sole cause of your problems anyway; mind and body may be connected by only in some ways. I think counselling is the way forward for you, and possibly drug therapy although of course counselling is more preferable.

I understand your stance on not wanting to take pills because of the chemicals - I feel the same way - but how would you feel about herbal remedies? They're only made with natural ingredients and are entirely chemical free, yet I've found them to be very effective. Quiet Life tablets by lanes are good for when you're feeling depressed - they calm you down & dull your mind a little. And there's another brand that are good for helping you sleep if you're having problems with that..can't remember what they're called by I can look them up for you if you want. :)

[Ozma Omega]

Geist, I apologise if you found my last post offensive. I tried to be as clear and direct as I could, but if I crossed the line, I'm sorry.

I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said, but I advise you to be a bit more mature and read through this whole thread again, keeping an open mind about it. We're all trying to help. That's what this forum is for. No one here has posted just to "prove you wrong." Like I said before, this isn't just another discussion. Sure, disagreeing with the majority isn't necessarily bad in itself, but in this case some people know more about this than you do, and seeing as they're not directly involved, they probably have a clearer perspective than you.

If laughing and crying doesn't feel normal to you, that's because you're suffering from depression, like you've said yourself. That's most likely the source of all the problems you've mentioned. Think about it. Your generally negative look on life and everything human is because of the depression. The answer to that is counseling, not any kind of surgery. BtG already explained a good way to go about it.

And do try to be more open minded. We're not in this for the debate. We're just trying to help and prevent you making a bad decision. Bad as in extremely unhealthy and dangerous.

[Amy]

If you hate children as much as you say you do, do you really think you should even worry about having any? Getting organs removed for the sole purpose of not getting pregnant is one stupid reason to put yourself at risk. Although you're not really hinting you want it done, this is for future reference. All surgeries come with possible major life-changing risks - even if you were to undergo surgery on your pinky finger - and if you go under the knife for shits and giggles (and believe me, this whole business of asking this question sounds like shits and giggles) you're asking for possible infection if you have healing problems, possible pain in the future, possible things to go wrong with your system if it doesn't take to not having specific organs in your body.. this is not comparable to the question, however, it's a good example: my father had his bladder removed due to cancer, and could not urinate on his own for the rest of his life. It had effects on his physical and mental being before he died. If something happened where it affected other organs like that, would you risk it?

before I get to redundant rambling, let me say this. I'm not trying to be mean or insensitive. I'm stating the facts for you. Don't start getting the itch to cut out organs. Ovaries are a MAJOR part of the female body. They aren't just egg-makers, they contain properties that have to do with your hormones. If you want to undergo menopause at 12, then go for it. You say you don't want children now, I bet you in 10 years you'll disagree with yourself. I've said it since I was six, but I realized that I might just want a little 'me' running around one day, having opportunities i didn't get. You couldn't really do much about that if you're missing parts, now can you?

BAD IDEA FOR ANYONE.