poor?

[Areo 13]

I don't know if I can word this right but I'll do my best. Oh and please, I'm not trying to offend anyone. If I do, I give you my apologies now.

Lately all I have been hearing about is how god damn rich we Americans are. I hear storys on how if other countries find out you are an American tourist they will change the price of souvenirs. I hear that most countries aren't as fortunate as us and don't anything.

I was thinking, there is a good number of countries on this site right? We are a gaming site right? So we all must have some sort of income or we wouldn't have the systems and games we own. So I ask you is you don't mind, If you have a job how much do you make. And translated into other currencies would be appreciated. If you don't have a job where do you get the money to afford these nice things.

I know America is a bit wasteful in some areas, meaning we are clearly far from perfect but there other countries out there that have a decent income and consume alot too. So please share you knowledge and once again sorry if any one is offended.

[TV Casualty]

This is pretty stupid and I'm not too sure what you are really trying to accomplish. :P

Anyway, it's not so much only that America is the wealthiest, but we percieve ourselves to be that way. Whether or not America has more money isn't so much the point, but the fact that as a country we tend to flaunt ourselves around is what does the trick of pissing people off.

[Minion]

If you get pissed because someone ACTS rich, you need to either sit in your house, lock all your doors, and never come out again.

....or beat the shit out of Trump.

I work a low-wage job, roughly 10k a year, maybe. Am I poor? I don't think myself to be poor. Compared to not having ANY money at all a year ago, I like to think of myself as (in a way) rich.

[Dove]

I make $35,000 a year before taxes.

[Kat]

He's feeding his curiosity and I don't think it's stupid at all.

I live in America but none of our games were bought by my parents or any other adult at all. My brother and I (well he mostly :P) saved our own money and bought them for ourselves. Same with the systems. Well now that my brother has two jobs (at least $1,000 a month I believe) it's easier to get games, for sure... but even then I wouldn't call him rich or anything, I mean he's fine. He can provide for himself, so it's.. nyeh. It's alright.

Point is I think it's all down to circumstance, really. Some people happen to live pretty okay lives but there might be things keeping them from getting jobs and thus, not being able to get their own games etc.

Now some people might live on a tighter budget (like say, within the family) but since time and chance allows them to get a job and earn money, they get the stuff. So, you know.

[AP]

To be honest, America isn't a "rich" country at all in my perspective.

Okay, a lot of people live wonderful lives there. Great, good for them. The country also has a very stable economy and is very rich. America also has a lot of people living in practically third or second world conditions, though. So in that sense they're not very rich at all.

[TV Casualty]

If you get pissed because someone ACTS rich, you need to either sit in your house, lock all your doors, and never come out again.

....or beat the shit out of Trump.


I'm really bothered by how totally non-responsive that is. I'll make a list or something.
1. I don't get pissed because someone acts rich, I was refering to the international community.
2. The statement that I was making was the general truth that being wealthy doesn't piss people off, but throwing your weight around and flaunting your wealth is what does it.
3. You say I should sit in my house, but that assumes that a. I live in a place where people are incredibly rich and b. that I am likely to encounter a rich jackass every day.


Please read my posts.

((quick edit)) Alex - Quick history note, in the 80's the First world refered to capitalist nations, the third world refered to poor, underdeveloped nations that could become capitalist or communist. The 2nd world refers to communist states. So living in a 2nd world condition is a funny way to say poor, but I guess there could be some commies in America.

[AP]

Modern Definition of 2nd World = Developing Countries that are only Semi-Industrial.

[TV Casualty]

Second World also second world
n. During the Cold War, the Communist nations of the world.

Sec'ond-World' (sěk'ənd-wûrld') adj.
(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

[Sioux]

Well, Muad let's not get too nit picky with the words. <_<

He just means the quality of life is pretty much shit in many areas of America.

And yes, we aren't the richest country in the world, I doubt we ever really were. Luxembourg and Norway beat us this year it seems.

As for me, Well, I'm an Artist, I'll toil in America's poverty for a while until I become an animator. and even then, $38,000 a year. >_>

[Minion]

I'm really bothered by how totally non-responsive that is. I'll make a list or something.
1. I don't get pissed because someone acts rich, I was refering to the international community.
2. The statement that I was making was the general truth that being wealthy doesn't piss people off, but throwing your weight around and flaunting your wealth is what does it.
3. You say I should sit in my house, but that assumes that a. I live in a place where people are incredibly rich and b. that I am likely to encounter a rich jackass every day.


Please read my posts.

I did not mean you. I meant the whole international thing. You are not special.

[/respose]

[TV Casualty]

Well great, you answered one of three points. Clearly you read something. You're getting there.

[Tallulah]

I feel really sorry for people who are living in poverty in supposed 'first world' countries , such as America and Britain, through no fault of their own. Old people in particular, are very susceptible to such things, because basically our state pensions system has gone down the crapper. :P I think the British government should get their priorities right and help our poverty-stricken citizens first and foremost, before giving aid to Third World countries, which will probably go to a corrupt war-lord anyway.

Being unemployed, and desperately seeking a job (I was very annoyed to see that the Jobs pages weren't printed today, as they usually are, being near Christmas and all :yuck: ) I resent the absolute dross of society, who insist on scrounging off the already struggling welfare system, having God knows how many kids, and then demanding free housing whilst refusing to get off their fat, tracksuit-clad arses and get a fricking job, even if it is eight hours a week in some market.

I live off £45.50 a week of Jobseekers Allowance, and am also entitled to £30 a week housing benefit. After rent and council tax, this leaves me with approximately £10 a week to live off. Better than some, I must admit, and better than it was before I actually got housing benefit (it was about -£5 then), but still not enough. I also have a £300 overdraft to contend with; fortunately I'm not using it at the moment.

I studied Sociology at college, so I like to think I know what I'm talking about. -_-

[Areo 13]

Wow, I'm surprised by two thing. A. people responded and B. there seems to be a bit of an argument over some things. This was for me to get a feel on how others live, because I too feel bad about the poor people in Chinese sweatshops and African Diamond mines. But that is only 2 places in the world, I'm just trying to prove there is still SOME good left in the world. US is blamed for most of the bad. WE are wasteful, rich, and thoughtless. Like I said i may not word this right but it was a learning thing.:P

[Wingly]

I sometime feel money is too much used in the rich/poor-discussion. Of course it's a valid and important thing, but there's also human values, not only economic values. If you're rich you may eat luxury dinners every day, but you don't appreciate it. If you're not so rich, and eat a luxury dinner once a year it's worth more that one time, you can really enjoy it. And that count for all luxury things.

In Norway the welfare system is falling apart, not because there's a lack of money, but the whole system is wrong. There's focus on universal welfare goods, and they go after the average to apparently help most people. But that's a wrong focus, and I oppose universal welfare. Why on earth should the richest people in Norway get free school books for their kids? I'd rather use that money on the poorest. I want more individual focus, and the former goverment managed to do one important welfare reform making that possible. But now it's a socialist goverment, and they raise the taxes for more universal average-welfare. There's a lack of money in Norway for the future (and we need three times as much as the whole oil fund to pay out pensions), so I'd rather use less money on the poorest that more money on everyone. The rich manages by themselves. And I'd also lower taxes, so the richest have more money to invest (they're not stupid, so they want to expand their valute in stead of using it all), creating more jobs helping more people out of poverty, creating more tax income to the goverment (former goverment lowered the taxes by 24 billions, and the tax income raised by 48 billion).

And I also don't want to cut to the third world, as someone over here. Firstly it's irresponsibel, and you need to think wider. I want to put restrictions on the money. A country have to use them good, and work for implementing democracy and following the human rights. Demanding is caring. Secondly it's difficult to use more money in a richer country as it puts more pressure on the economy, boosting inflation which boosts the interest rate, hitting young people hard, and that is also irresponsible. I also want free trade, as you need to bake the cake before splitting it, lifting the poorest nations.

Personally I don't feel poor, I feel rich. Not because I earn a lot of money, and not because I earn very little, but because I spend them in a way making the personal human value rise. I earn 200000 NOK, or USD $31000, or GBP &#163;16000.

[Jules]

I think that you can only classify yourself as being rich or poor by looking at where you live.

For example, say you live in the poorest country in the world, Ethiopia. If you live in an actual bricked up house with furniture and a fridge and a good enough car, you will be considered rich. But if you live with those same things, but in Switzerland, you will probably just be considered average, possibly even a bit below.

For me, a lot of Americans seem rich but that's just because you're standard of living is very different to mine. I have to pay buckets to be able to come on the internet whereas you people hardly pay anything. It costs about 10 pounds or 15 dollars to spend one hour on the internet. The same applies to our phone calls. America is just really advanced so some things are make very accessible to you that other people in other countries have to dish out so much money and effort for.

I also consider a lot of Brittish people to be lucky and fairly wealthy because I have heard that even if you don't have a job in the UK, there is a thing called "the Doll" or something. It's when the government gives you a nice some of money to live on if you don't have a job, and when teenage girls get pregnant there then they also recieve a fair amount of money from the government. Here where I live, if you don't have a job then you suffer, or get into crime very quickly.

I don't work yet, but I'd say that my dad earns about 3000 pounds or 4000 dollars for a 160 hour month as a quality assurance manager on a mine.

[dragoneye^_^]

well personally i think that the definition of poor can be identified in many different ways, there's people who don't have money and can't pay the rent so they are poor. Thenthere are places like India where everyone there is poor because they don't have a roof over their head. I think the reason why many people say that America is so rich is because majority of people own at least 2 pairs of shoes, and such things like that. It's easy to find a job, and there are many places to take people in for shelter. it's interesting because i too likve in the US and more specifically in California, where the weather is perfect year round, and people own horses, and the area that i live around, well let's just say my family doesn't really fit in well. We are very poor, money wise and it's hard because friends come to me and say, oh hey wanna go to disneyland tomorrow?? I can't because i don't have 70 some odd $$ to just spend. Anywho enough about me, I believe that it's up to the person themselve to determine their defenition of being poor.

[Dr. Flux]

For me, a lot of Americans seem rich but that's just because you're standard of living is very different to mine. I have to pay buckets to be able to come on the internet whereas you people hardly pay anything. It costs about 10 pounds or 15 dollars to spend one hour on the internet. The same applies to our phone calls. America is just really advanced so some things are make very accessible to you that other people in other countries have to dish out so much money and effort for.

I do believe the standard of living in America isn't as good as a lot of other countries. The only reason why you pay more for your internet is most likely because of your government and their inability to implement suitable infrastructure or their lack of motivation to watch telecommunications in your country.

America has a large network of cables and their telecommunications infrastructure is one of the largest and most developed in the world. Plus competition in the American telecommunications market is very fierce, meaning the consumers benefit.

When you live in a country like mine, that decided to, instead of upgrading the phone lines in every area to bring everyone into the ADSL era, implement a nation-wide HSDPA network which is their way of getting out of doing a little bit of hard work. You'll realise how vital infrastructure is when you start talking about costs. Lazy effing sods.

Anyway, America has the largest economy in the world. That doesn't mean that the people are rich. America doesn't even have a decent welfare system to help the poorer people. Could you imagine how much more of a better place America would be to live in if the Government used a large portion of it's military budget and NASA budget to improve the living quality of it's citizens?

I know the minimum wage in my country is about $12.40 per hour. I earn around about that, don't really know exactly as I haven't restarted work yet since I've returned. My family really isn't that rich, we survive and we get by, but I never complain if I don't have any money left for the week because it's my fault. I'm a firm believer in, if you're unhappy with what you earn or how you live make a fucking effort to change it. Work two jobs, sell a body part or become a prostitute. I made it into the most expensive university in Australia by working my ass off and I know it's only going to get worse. But I know it will be better for me in the long-run. Have a little motivation. If you're only working to buy video games then you deserve to be poor.

Unfortunately, it isn't as simple as this though. If you live in a country with a stagnant or falling economy it may be worse off for you. Or maybe a country with extremely high interest rates. There are also costs that have to be taken into account. You may live in a large house, but if you have a mountain of debt because of it, you really aren't that rich now are you.

After living in Japan for a month I lived in a country that, from the outside, may seem to be very wealthy, but many families have mortgages that have to be inherited by younger generations.

[Areo 13]

Anyway, America has the largest economy in the world. That doesn't mean that the people are rich. America doesn't even have a decent welfare system to help the poorer people. Could you imagine how much more of a better place America would be to live in if the Government used a large portion of it's military budget and NASA budget to improve the living quality of it's citizens?

I know the minimum wage in my country is about $12.40 per hour. I earn around about that, don't really know exactly as I haven't restarted work yet since I've returned. My family really isn't that rich, we survive and we get by, but I never complain if I don't have any money left for the week because it's my fault. I'm a firm believer in, if you're unhappy with what you earn or how you live make a fucking effort to change it. Work two jobs, sell a body part or become a prostitute. I made it into the most expensive university in Australia by working my ass off and I know it's only going to get worse. But I know it will be better for me in the long-run. Have a little motivation. If you're only working to buy video games then you deserve to be poor.

Wow, um every thing you said in your post was great. It's amazing that your minimum wage is $12.40 an hour. Ours last I checked it was $5.50. And I'm glad to hear your work is for the future and not now. If you think about it the now is hopeless and we should look to the future. And as for the Military money and NASA thing. We wouldn't need to cut into those budgets if we didn't have so many illegal immigrants taking our money. They leave US citizens in the hole to rot and fight and create crime. Then we have to spend more money on the cities and the homeless. Personal to put my mixed up head to striate, if people would stop fighting and settle their differences, the world would be a more wealthier place. There, a whole lotta nonsense!^_^

[seph]

Instead of focusing on an individual lets focus on the country as a whole.

Ill tell ya something, America may seem "so great" but look at all the money we spend and then gander at all the money we owe. America spends much more money than we have, or defecit is what over $500 billion? The american dollar is slowly loosing its place as a valuable tender, to France I think it was. Think of all the problems we have. Two of the major ones are:

Social Security- that fund will be dried up before my generation will be able to collect from it. We are pouring money from our hard earned paychecks into something we wont see, not very Secure is it?
http://www.factcheck.org/article305.html

Medicare- Not everyone in america can receive the medicine they need simply beacuse they cant afford it. I know in canada, they take alot more out of paychecks but they all get free medicare, last time I checked. If you dont got the green than kiss your butt goodbye. If you were a doctor, would you want to put as much effort into someone who wont pay your fat paycheck or someone who will leave tips?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=36283

Those are two of the major problems our country is having, not even to mention the war and all the thousands of dollars we pour into other "third world" countries, thousands we dont have. Throughout history America has tried to be the, I dont know, "Father figure" of the globe. We do have a responsibilty as one of the few remaining super-powers to see the world remains in a relatively "secure" state, at least thats what I think, but we need to start worrying about our own country and its citizens before we try and solve all the worlds problems. I like to think of my country as a giant rubber band. You can stretch it, and stretch it as far out as you like but eventualy what happens? Cracks form and it snaps.

[Minion]

You're focusing on the physical aspect of being rich, there's more to life than money. We, as a nation, are poor, and if the world wanted to collect on it, Mexico would be looking like beverly hills compared to what we'd be looking like.

Personally (an opinion, in a debate thread? Shoot me, please) you dont need money ot be rich, as said in the thread before. Personal enlightenment is another way of being rich, not having a fat wallet doesnt make you poor.

[Jules]

Personally (an opinion, in a debate thread? Shoot me, please) you dont need money ot be rich, as said in the thread before. Personal enlightenment is another way of being rich, not having a fat wallet doesnt make you poor.

It's true, morals, culture and heritage can sometimes make a country what it is. A lot of foreign people tell me how much they would love to live in South Africa for our gorgeous climate, friendly people and for our sheer nature and beauty. Then again, I don't really care about that since what bugs me most is looking over my shoulder all the time too see which beggar wants to snatch my wallet.

How I see it, is that if you have everything you need and if you are happy, you're rich enough and need nothing more. Unless having mass amounts of money is what makes you happy...

[ImThaSpaz]

Just to throw in my two cents here.. Sepho, I did like the fact that you pointed out the massive amount of debt that Americans live under. Last I looked, the average American household had a little under 10k credit card debt. That doesn't include car payments or house payments. And unfortunately, it's only getting worse. Americans need to get over trying to "Keep up with the Jones's." We need to learn to live within our means.

But even having said that... I do feel blessed to have been raised here. When I was alot younger, we didn't have alot. My dad worked alot to provide and now we are somewhere in the average. (Though, without any credit card debt because my dad hates credit cards :) )



Medicare- Not everyone in america can receive the medicine they need simply beacuse they cant afford it. I know in canada, they take alot more out of paychecks but they all get free medicare, last time I checked. If you dont got the green than kiss your butt goodbye. If you were a doctor, would you want to put as much effort into someone who wont pay your fat paycheck or someone who will leave tips?
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=36283


Now.. for my rant :P
Yes Canada does get cheaper drugs than US. Shoot, I work in a pharmacy and when I have an older patient who can't afford their medicines, and don't qualify for help from Medicare, I try to tell them to think about ordering stuff from Canada. But as far as that all goes, the quality of care from doctors in Canada is not near as good as it is here in the US. And it all goes back to as you call it, "The green."
Greed drives the majority of the doctors, surgeons, and neurosurgeons. Wanna make money in the medical field? You have to be the best. So therefore, we have some of the best medical care you can buy.. And personally.. i wouldn't change that. If there's no motivation, and helping people is now always enough, then there won't be any medical advances.

[Pauwel]

Now.. for my rant :P
Yes Canada does get cheaper drugs than US. Shoot, I work in a pharmacy and when I have an older patient who can't afford their medicines, and don't qualify for help from Medicare, I try to tell them to think about ordering stuff from Canada. But as far as that all goes, the quality of care from doctors in Canada is not near as good as it is here in the US. And it all goes back to as you call it, "The green."
Greed drives the majority of the doctors, surgeons, and neurosurgeons. Wanna make money in the medical field? You have to be the best. So therefore, we have some of the best medical care you can buy.. And personally.. i wouldn't change that. If there's no motivation, and helping people is now always enough, then there won't be any medical advances.

That's where taxes come in. I agree with you about motivation, but the money shouldn't come from the patients. If the United States had much, much larger taxes and the government could use it properly and thereby create a succesful welfare system, it'd solve a lot of problems, not just medically, but socially in general.
Of course, accordin to stereotype the average American citizen seems to go "OMGWTF TAXES SUCK" at the mere mention of any kind of a tax raise. Not knowing how close to the truth that is, at this point it might be close to impossible to create such a welfare system, so it's not really a realistical solution.

[Sioux]

Hey, That's one of the only pluses to having a greed driven neo socialist mini government that runs thr reservation, we get awesome HealthCare for just being Native Americans.

Apparantly, I am covered for everything but most of the money for surgeries which helps me oh so much.

However, I don't see a universal healthcare system in the future and even if we do, I doubt I'd take advantage of it much, All I have to do is get to any reservation in America and get treated at thier hospital and my bills go to the tribe who actually do have enough money to pay for my care. Although, they keep all the money for themselves in the higher up positions and don't really give it out to the people like they should. :/

[Areo 13]

Just to throw in my two cents here.. Sepho, I did like the fact that you pointed out the massive amount of debt that Americans live under. Last I looked, the average American household had a little under 10k credit card debt. That doesn't include car payments or house payments. And unfortunately, it's only getting worse. Americans need to get over trying to "Keep up with the Jones's." We need to learn to live within our means.

Greed drives the majority of the doctors, surgeons, and neurosurgeons. Wanna make money in the medical field? You have to be the best. So therefore, we have some of the best medical care you can buy.. And personally.. i wouldn't change that. If there's no motivation, and helping people is now always enough, then there won't be any medical advances.

I see what you mean, It seems like every day the local news is talking about a famous person such as a king or ex-president is getting medical care over here in Minnesota. Also my parents hate credit cards. We have one but only use it when we go on vacation once a year and when we have money to immediately pay the company back.

[SlankyZerM]

well for my perspective i am certainly not middle class, I live of social welfare benefits alot of the time when work for me isn't available. i don't have alot of long term career potentials, but that doesn't bother me at all. i quite enjoy living by the motto, don't trade stress for money. so some of my popverty one could say is self chosen, but i do lots of great work with nature as a conservationist and now run a small nursery venture for australian native trees, some of which can fetch up to 200 dollars for a single 1 meter plant. I enjoy my work and my simple lifestyle, but i do live in australia so i do have the benefit of the "dole". don't think i'm someone who bludges off the dole by choice, i wouldn't work when i can and start a nursery if i didn't wish to live off my own income.

[Fenris]

And as for the Military money and NASA thing.

US$ (Dollars) 470 Billion planned to be spent on the military in 2007 and US$ (Dollars) 16.2 Billion spent on NASA. (I'm uncertain whether NASA's funds are derived from the Defense Budget?)

The U.S. budget for 2007 is thus:

Medicare/MedicAid: 25%
Defense: 16%
Interest On Public Debt: 13%
Social Security Administration: 19%
Other: 27%

Approximately 13% of the U.S. population live below the federal poverty threshold. It seems that to help these people you would need to increase Medicare/MedicAid etc. and Social Security. In order to do this without raising taxes you would need to remove money from somewhere.



We wouldn't need to cut into those budgets if we didn't have so many illegal immigrants taking our money.

About 50% of these Immigrants are Mexican, 53% of Mexicans live in poverty (Less than two US$ a day). I mean seriously, an out-of-work American compared to an out-of-work Mexican? Who actually needs the job more? Try living on $56 dollars a month, see how far it gets you. ;)

Besides, the Bush Administration is always willing to look the other way, I mean, Illegal Immigration to the U.S. is virtually Government endorsed. In 1999, The Clinton Administration collected $3.69 million in fines from 890 companies for having Illegal Immigrant workers. In 2004 the Bush Government collected $188,500 from 64 companies for employing Illegal Immigrants. None of this money came from U.S. companies by the way, which seemed to not be targeted...

They leave US citizens in the hole to rot and fight and create crime.

They wouldn't be left in a hole if you had a National Health Service and/or Welfare State, that was kind of the point. 8)

Then we have to spend more money on the cities and the homeless. Personal to put my mixed up head to striate, if people would stop fighting and settle their differences, the world would be a more wealthier place. There, a whole lotta nonsense!

Cool man, V. altruistic. ^^

[Aztex]

I am not that poor, but I want to be super rich.

[Wingly]

I'm not going to go into an anti-welfare war (as I'm not anti-welfare), but I feel I should warn about expanding welfare too much. I'm no expert on America, so I obviously can't tell you what to do, but I can give some experiences from Norway, that would also apply to any other state.

Norway's a very wealthy country, with lots of oil money. For some forreigners the Nordic Model might seem good, but it's not. In the economic perspective first. The state has gotten itself into pension liabilities, and when the wave of elders come knocking on our door, we have three times more to pay in pensions than there's oil money in Norway.

That will cause taxes to rise into the extreme, causing economic collapse.

The same things apply to any other nation, also America. There's fewer paying for each person on social security today than was intended, and reform is therefor needed before it all falls apart, because then there'll be no welfare at all.

To put it into a fitting metaphore: Expanding welfare will work like a bandaid. It'll secure the problems for a while, then the glue in the bandaid will weaken, and it'll fall off.

Then there's the more individual view. Nordic model is based on the average Joe, and it's therefor not working as it should, as there is no one that is the average. And those problems will be much bigger in a larger scale, like America. The average will be even further away from most people than here. Milton Friedman actually pointed that out in an interview. The nordic model might work for a while here, as it's a more homogenic society, but will be impossible in less homogenic societies.

Calling for more welfare state is something you should be careful with, it could end in ruin.

[Quinlan and Donnelly]

$85,390.
Teachers get paid a lot in Ireland. Especially Irish teachers.

I don't think I'm rich and I don't think I'm poor. It doesn't matter how much income you get. It's how happy you are. You're poor when you're not happy if you get my drift

[Areo 13]

You are a teacher? Interesting idea you throw out there.

[SlankyZerM]

I blame it on the breakdown of the family unit