May 22, 2008, 05:06 PM
download it on a p2p. watch it. discuss.
May 26, 2008, 05:28 AM
Or perhaps you could explain instead or this might just possibly disappear.
The Dark Paladin
May 26, 2008, 05:58 AM
Seriously. I only have a 72.5 gig hard drive for this computer; I'm not downloading something without a better reason than to discuss what I downloaded. :?
May 26, 2008, 03:36 PM
Just watch it here: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com
May 26, 2008, 09:00 PM
Meh, I've seen it before. Portions of it are slightly disturbing(a portion of the actual footage from the bombings in the subways in Britain, the last phone call of an office worker in one of the Trade Center towers when it fell and you hear him all the way til the collapse, etc...).
Its well put together though and really tries to bring the fear as it transverses from one piece of "evidence" to another.
I don't know, the movie doesn't make me anymore convinced of the whole conspiracy on 9/11 and the fact that the movie tries to kind of disprove Christianity and says every war in the last 100 years belonged to some secret banking organization bent on world domination, its almost fantastical in appearance. I don't buy it, personally.
Plus, if you read the site itself, they dedicate a large paragraph to answer a question that basically aggressively attacks the notion of religion saying its basically a fallacy of man that "corrupts" every generation and that alone is enough to make me dismiss all their efforts. Sure, they may have some great message and have put the effort forward to try and convince the world of their views and opinions and whatnot but, its not worth it to me if at the end of it, I don't get something greater to believe in than simply this life now as is.
Jun 1, 2008, 07:10 PM
I'll input my brain a little too then. Firstly; screw P2P... It's like putting yourself deep inside a lady of the night and wondering why you have lumps where you previously didn't... Vagina.exe or something... I dunno.
Seen it and it was alright. It isn't an unbiased report, which I dislike. Not much more than two hours of clips and illuminati-like talk. The subjects in this kind of thing are always the ones people are afraid to talk about, in fear of a backlash from the opposition. This is how they get so popular in the first place, like Michael Moore's forays into the realms of the 'hush-hush'. Rarely do they support both sides in a debate, which as anyone knows is a requirement of a proper documentary or History essay. It isn't cool to outright dismiss a subject. It fails to tick that box. In this case, the subjects are the Governments, banking corporations and the religious right. Though you could also argue that they are one and the same. Did Bush and his friends plan 9/11? Nobody is going to find out unless someone involved says something, which would be self-destruction after taking several countries to war... Though events throughout history make it plausible. In these times, you wouldn't expect it at all. I'm undecided personally. Whichever way you look at the WTC, it is an unbelievable and malicious event.
To be honest though, I doubt I would have watched this if I hadn't seen the thread on here because it isn't something I particularly look out for. Though conspiracy shows about Titanic switching and evil secret organisations are a weakness of mine. I love a good story.
Some of the footage they used was quite disturbing, the office phonecall and the underground blast are quite prominent. The scene with the musical plane collisions at the opening of the WTC portion was very distasteful. The film uses the same fear propaganda that it cries down, ironically enough. It isn't that I completely disagree with the film, it is how it's presented entirely as fact... When there's no way to prove much of the conspiracy theories. Stating that JFK was killed because he spoke out against secret societies? Alright then...
I did enjoy: "We're gonna git Saddam Hussain... Er... Osama Bin Laden!"
The bank thing is also possible, there have always been conspiracy theories and we won't see an end to them anytime soon. Money makes people very different. The people in the banks are hardly unfamiliar with money, but to stage the depression and set up wars in order to make more moolah seems a little extreme. Though Bush (and now McCain) seem intent on blowing up everywhere east of France for vengeance. Here in England, we all tend to accept that Bush and Blair oil incorporated played us and ultimately wanted to tag us with chips and shit (Those of us that haven't had their IQ's sapped by Jeremy Kyle and endless reality TV, anyway). It's just the kind of stupid thing that the ruling class do. Tag the plebs and process them for extermination while "fagging" your Old Etonian comrades (of course they're all men... Women still can't attend Eton... Psh). Greed can mess people up and while sending an undefended ocean liner into a warzone was a stupid idea, it shouldn't have been a viable target as it was under the command of a neutral country. The explosives within have never been proved, which this film fails to mention. However it did sink un-naturally fast. The concept of provoking a country into making the first move, while politically a sound move, isn't the greatest idea. Just the thought of the Allies supplying the Axis with equipment to manufacture weapons to use against them for cash makes kittens cry.
The religion part comparing religious characters is pretty obvious stuff. Many religions had astrological basis and borrowed elements from each other. I enjoyed the analysis of the sun and constellation's, but I'm a huge fan of the stories linked to certain religions and it is pretty arrogant to assume that one religion is more important, or truer than another because that one religion happened to be the one a handful of fanatics were shipped off for practising. Even now, "the holy land" is the site of fighting, something which started centuries ago. The ownership of this land has been fiercely contested between different creeds and factions. The fall of the Roman Empire and the rise of Roman Catholicism plunged Europe into the dark ages (Mainly due to the corrupt church at the time that basically ruled the whole continent - Moolah, again!). Criticism was directed at theologians that didn't blindly follow the classical teachings from such Grecian players as Galen, which even until pretty recently were accepted as fact (the four humours, Sun-orbiting Earth etc). In fact, someone who held onto their controversial views was usually killed as a heretic. Sound familiar? Yeah, FOX news and others still use the word "blasphemy" or similar phonetics to describe critics. It's all a little arcane, indeed the news corporations could be viewed as putting out 'modern-day witch burnings'. It is true that religion has been used to control the populace, especially in times or places where the bulk of the population were under-educated or otherwise incapable of vocalising their own opinions. It still happens today, often fuelling the fires of war and conflict. The only difference is our Templar's have been replaced with Marines.
The way I see it, regarding Religion and Politics. If one side can't take criticism, they should stop criticising others. What we have at the moment is akin to children in a playground arguing over who has the better deck of nearly-identical Pokémon cards. Sure, you may have the holographic Clefable but does that really make you feel better about yourself? Honestly? Things like this bring out the worst in people. So, yeah, it can corrupt to a degree.
There are areas where religion has served to strengthen or aid, of course. The most obvious being that it has given people something as simple as an answer on what to expect. Maybe they're scared and it comforts them, I couldn't comment on that. The world's many empires were entangled with religion (especially the former Spanish/American colonies like The Phillippines - Though they sure showed Magellan). The most obvious is the spread of Christianity to the new world. These countries would be very different places today without them (Though in these cases, the natives were largely forced to convert, or replaced by the people of another place... which is awful). Whether that is a pro or con is subject to a whole debate in itself though. If a writer was to do a 'holy book' today then they would be branded a mentalist and probably be told to leave, a recent-ish example of this would be Joseph Smith, whom was forced into exile and ran to Utah when he started talking about angels and golden plates. He was tarred, feathered and beaten, but was only talking about a slightly different slant on Christianity. People really don't take kindly to things being different, which is a shame.
I doubt whether religion in itself is inherently good or bad. It does a good job at what it does... and what it does is in the eye of the beholder, or the wielder of its power. It is probably a dangerous thing to do but: Personally, I'm of the belief that life is what you get, we're only here to create the next wave of people that will probably get it way better than us. With that in mind, my cynicism is neutral, everyone gets a fair slice but I like to support the other side of a debate where I can (While maintaining what little integrity I have). Though whatever one person says will always be taken well by some and badly by others, there will always be conflict so long as there are arrogant pricks with over-inflated opinions and the ability to hit things. I could say that "Barney is awesome" and I'm sure there would be totally uncalled for death threats from someone who has a gun in my letterbox (almost kinky...).
Barney sucks, just so we're clear.
Eww... I talked about politics and religion... Seriously too. I tend to ramble on things like this... Anyway, I'm probably stupid and wrong so... Meh :P
The Dark Paladin
Jun 4, 2008, 10:09 AM
Nah, what you said voiced a lot of my own views on politics and religion, to be quite frank. It's good to see/hear/read that there are people out there who share my opinions, when the majority would just say that what I think is BS...
Jun 7, 2008, 08:49 AM
Speaking of barney, do you remember the Al-Qaim incident involving a shipping container behind a dissused railway station where they blasted detainees with the 'I Love You' song from barney. It involved a Newsweek reporter named Adam Piore. google it.
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